So it's kind of ironic that I would have told people wrongly five or six, seven years ago, become an engineer because you have a job forever. 

And the sales and marketing thing is probably dying. And I actually think it's swung the opposite way. I think the soft skills, the human skills, the eyeball to eyeball, the trust, the negotiation, the strategy, those are the things that are more defensible and more exciting. 

So I can, I'm a product guy, I can get geeked out about a feature set, but if I can't get my strategic mind around how I can do some kind of checkmate in the market with a partnership or alliance, then we're probably not moving forward on it.